With how much (or how little) fear do you live you life?

by Nucky Fri Apr 02, 2010 2:41 am

Do you try to avoid death with every step you take at all costs? Or do you just do what you want with reckless abandon, period? Or somewhere in between?

I almost left a chat early tonight because of the depressing prospect of dying too soon. But, in the end I decided that, myself, i believe that, in the end, somehow, we will be with those who matter to us most, so the details of the journey are inconsequential to me. So, I try not to kick it TOO soon myself, but, all in all, I don't sweat the small shit too much myself. Makuna matata, baby! With how much (or how little) fear do you live you life? 942872

With how much (or how little) fear do you live you life? 942872

by Pixie1970 Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:50 am

I'm in no hurry to die...I have lots to do! Extra Happy

But I have a very strong belief in the afterlife, my own experiences throughout my life and evidence given to me via trusted mediums. I don't fear death. I know that " I am a spiritual being having a physical experience". I know that when my time comes, my loved ones will be there waiting for me. My only fear is having to leave what I have here...my loved ones in life.The thought of not being around them in the physical sense upsets me.

A lot of people spend their lives fearing the inevitable and that is such a waste of life. I know the feeling.... having a family history of cancer is like a time bomb ticking away and there is a chance that it may never happen. It isn't the thought of dying that upsets me, it is having to leave my family. Most people don't get to know when they are going to die. Accidents happen...the kind that totally blindside you on a Monday afternoon as a lorry ploughs into your car..one minute you are thinking what to do for tea...the next...game over...all in a split second. Some people DO get to know when they are going to die ( or are given a damn good idea) and they are able to tie up loose ends...make ammends and perhaps more importantly...say goodbye.

I would love to leave this world without regrets, having lived as much as I could. At the moment, that is work in progress. If someone was to tell me I had only 6 months to live....I would pack as much in as I could...sod my fears that have held me back. So why can't I do it now? Why would it have to take something as dramatic as that for me to live how I want to? There is a song called "Live like you were dying" and I think that is as good advice as you can have. Live everyday like it will be your last ....get as much out of your day as you can. Phone loved ones just to tell them that you love them...who knows if you will get another chance!

In the words of Blue Öyster Cult ....."Don't Fear The Reaper"!!!! big grin

Some quotes!

"What we have done for ourselves alone dies with us; what we have done for others and the world remains and is immortal."
Albert Pike

"Death is not the greatest loss in life. The greatest loss is what dies inside us while we live."
Norman Cousins

"Thinking and talking about death need not be morbid; they may be quite the opposite. Ignorance and fear of death overshadow life, while knowing and accepting death erases this shadow."
Lily Pincus

"People fear death even more than pain. It's strange that they fear death. Life hurts a lot more than death. At the point of death, the pain is over."
Jim Morrison

"Have no regrets. The elderly usually don't have regrets for what we did, but rather for things we did not do. The only people who fear death are those with regrets."
Author Unknown, from DREAMS

"Life is a brief intermission, between birth and death, enjoy it."
M.K. Soni, from LIFE IS LIKE A MULTIFACETED PRISM

"I think of death as some delightful journey that I shall take when all my tasks are done."
Ella Wheeler Wilcox

"We must be diligent today. To wait until tomorrow is too late. Death comes unexpectedly. How can we bargain with it?"
Buddha

"Death is the opening of a more subtle life. In the flower, it sets free the perfume; in the chrysalis, the butterfly; in man, the soul."
Juliette Adam

by edie Fri Apr 02, 2010 6:22 am

by RBM Fri Apr 02, 2010 9:59 pm

Pixie1970 wrote:" I am a spiritual being having a physical experience".

Yup, that's a vacuum cleaner of fear, for me.

I've always believed in reincarnation even though I've never studied or a religion or philosophy or lived in a culture which espoused it. Recently learning of My Big TOE has filled in previous gaps of my understanding about how such a system would work.
Understanding the incarnation cycle allows for a greater level of comfort for me.

Also, learning what the Ego is ... and isn't ... gives a greater leverage to do the work of this incarnation. to grow more spiritually.

by SimplyNan Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:02 pm

I agree with you, Pixie, that we are spiritual beings in a physical body. For me, I live in the belief that the only time we have is right now, right this instant, there are no guarantees on anything past that. So, I pretty much stay in the moment and deal with things as they arise. That way, whatever comes up, whether it be good or bad, I am better able to deal with it appropriately.

By the way, I used to be afraid of pretty much everything. It was a lousy way to live my life. This is definitely better.

by Pixie1970 Sat Apr 03, 2010 4:09 am

RBM wrote:
Pixie1970 wrote:" I am a spiritual being having a physical experience".

Yup, that's a vacuum cleaner of fear, for me.

I've always believed in reincarnation even though I've never studied or a religion or philosophy or lived in a culture which espoused it. Recently learning of My Big TOE has filled in previous gaps of my understanding about how such a system would work.
Understanding the incarnation cycle allows for a greater level of comfort for me.

Also, learning what the Ego is ... and isn't ... gives a greater leverage to do the work of this incarnation. to grow more spiritually.

I keep an open mind on what I don't know. I know that the the spirit lives on after death because I have experienced it many times starting from when I was too young to know anything about the subject. The world of the psychic and the spiritual is so overwhelming and at times contradictory, that I trust my own experiences and keep an open mind on all the rest. There is a high level of sceptism as regarding such subjects and sceptism itself being divided into sceptics who keep an open mind but need scientific proof and pseudosceptics who dismiss everything no matter what evidence is shown to them. I am all for the sceptics naming and shaming the cons ...mediums and psychics etc there is a high level of them and in no way are they serving spirit, they are only serving themselves and exploiting the vunerable which is unforgivable but genuine mediums and psychics are also being targeted by the pseudo brigade. The cons do a lot of damage but the genuine mediums bring comfort and closure to thousands. Peoples lives have been turned around by the belief/knowledge that they have been communicating with a loved one.

I will have to do some reading on reincarnation.

Have you ever been regressed RBM?

by RBM Sat Apr 03, 2010 12:03 pm

Could you define regression - or provide some additional context ?

by edie Sat Apr 03, 2010 4:40 pm

i think i have an odd view of that rofl. dont fear death, i fear pain. dont fear hights only the sudden stop at the bottom. death is something that can not be stoped nor controled. when its time its time. my only wish is when my time comes it is painless.

by Alethia Sat Apr 03, 2010 7:09 pm

when its time its time. my only wish is when my time comes it is painless.

indeed! With how much (or how little) fear do you live you life? 454835

by Mystical Garden Sat Apr 03, 2010 7:18 pm

In my opinion fear is the ultimate enemy. Untill one can face one's fear one will always fall short of one's true potential.
As far as death is concerned surely it is nothing more than a return to the state of being before physical incarnation. If you remember what you were before you became the physical you then there is no fear in dying only, as some have said, in the way one dies.

by Alethia Sat Apr 03, 2010 7:25 pm

I dont live life with reckless abandon......as someone who feared death and living life fully, I guesss I tried to control those areas that I thought would kill me......facing those fears has given me a new perspective on how to live life with respect of all things around me including myself....if I have the choice to create change and if I really want it, then I will embrace it.....if I cannot I just accept and make the most of it...as for death I can honestly say now I do not fear death itself........and when I think about the transition from this life to the next I know that like this reality there will always be someone there to help you get through.........

by melodiccolor Sat Apr 03, 2010 8:05 pm

I am fairly fearless as a person, but not reckless. Death is inevitable but I'd like to improve the odds that I meet it in comfort in old age. More important, is the quality of my life while I am here; we cannot avoid the aging process but we do have a say about the relative health in which we do experience it. Steps taken now will pay off later, such as giving what the body needs for optimal performance.

Perhaps I am more aware of this than most because I was born with a progressive disabily that has taken a huge toll. It is through determination and never giving up that I recovered 25 years of functionality. Part of that was taking care of myself.

My quality of live is good; I enjoy it thoroughly and I fear little, not even pain and immobility. Been there, done that.

by Bluedream Sun Apr 04, 2010 9:12 am

Hmmm...yeah...I guess I've grown to not fear much these days. I mean...looking back...much of what I feared beforehand when young was learned or picked up on from others. I suppose my biggest crutch was a fear of failure.
Only because of how others around me sort of caused 'me' to look at myself critically. It was only a reaction from what i picked up on from them. Perhaps they feared too much of this also? I remember my Pop used to have a motivational plaque in his library that said; "If you are afraid of failure...you'll never do anything." I used to look at that and take it to heart when I felt doubts.
Once I no longer cared...it didn't matter and I just became comfortable with being me. Fear of death though? No...not at all. Too many good people that I loved have passed before me to even worry about that. I have faith I'll be with them again...in some form or other. That is comforting. I just hope I go quick and am not a burden to anyone. But I'll not even give that thought much leeway in my life right now. I'm happy now! Be 'here' now!
peace...b.d.

by melodiccolor Sun Apr 04, 2010 2:19 pm

The fear of failure is such a key issue. I did start a thread about that very thing in Stuff Happens. It seems to be ingrained in our culture and too many take it to heart.

by Pixie1970 Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:27 am

RBM wrote:Could you define regression - or provide some additional context ?

Hiya RBM...hope these links will help.

How regression therapy works

Past life case study

I have never used regression therapy but I am quite interested in how the use of it can alledgedly cure problems in this life. There is a theory that the birth marks that we have today are a result of an injury in a past life. My confusion about reincarnation is that how can we be in spirit and there to "welcome our families into the spirit world" if we have reincarnated? Time as we know it only exists in this world, spiritual time doesn't work in the same way so I would have to work out where it all fits in. WTF

Another interesting link.

Victor Zammit

by Alethia Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:12 am

Pixie1970 wrote:
RBM wrote:Could you define regression - or provide some additional context ?

Hiya RBM...hope these links will help.

How regression therapy works

Past life case study

I have never used regression therapy but I am quite interested in how the use of it can alledgedly cure problems in this life. There is a theory that the birth marks that we have today are a result of an injury in a past life. My confusion about reincarnation is that how can we be in spirit and there to "welcome our families into the spirit world" if we have reincarnated? Time as we know it only exists in this world, spiritual time doesn't work in the same way so I would have to work out where it all fits in.

I often think the same thing pixie...I have had few people bring my attention to past life issues that make much sense to now time and what I am going through, but I too often wonder about psychics who connect to your loved ones and communicate very clear messages from them...where are they? And also the whole welcoming committee that many have experienced like you have mentioned......it does create some confusion with the whole reincarnation..........especially when those who have passed over are still coming through years after their passing..Is their a point where one doesnt incarnate anymore? I wonder about that also.....

Another interesting link.

Victor Zammit

by Bluedream Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:58 am

melodiccolor wrote:The fear of failure is such a key issue. I did start a thread about that very thing in Stuff Happens. It seems to be ingrained in our culture and too many take it to heart.

Yes...thanks for bringing that up again Mel! It's good to read in 'postive light' for progress' sake.

I will also reiterate what i've briefly said before in regards to mediums' work with 'spirits passed on'; Because we cannot really be certain of whom they have contacted...whether it is really a loved one or a benevolent or 'trickster' spirit leading us purposefully astray...that sort of 'issue' seems less important to me in this life. I suppose many spirits can tell you things about those who have passed on...but it does not necessarily mean that they are that 'said person'! How do you REALLY know...and should we? Do our 'needed messages' come to us anyway in dreams and such throughout our lives 'here'...if we pay attention 'consciously and listen to ourselves? Do we need some great cosmic message from beyond anyway...to live our lives properly 'here'?
I personally feel that the 'dead' are mostly content with where they are and do not wish to disturb that karma 'there' with what is on this plane 'here'. Why does this really matter to us here anyway? I mean 'mediums' have been doing this for as long as we've been on earth with little better results and answers...for all of their 'questions'. It's been asked before by the best of the best!
As the Moody Blues once said; "Why do we never get an answer...when we're knocking at your door?"
Perhaps we are REALLY supposed to live 'here now'. Be content 'here now'.
As for reincarnation? I suppose some spirits get to come back...but as to why...I guess I don't care much at this time...cause I should just concern myself with being the best I can be 'here'.
just a thought or two...
b.d.

by jaded Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:38 pm

I used to be afraid of everything. I imagine alot of that as from my strict, dysfunctional upbringing. But though I was consumed with fear, I managed to be protective and take care of others despite being afraid.

This is going to sound silly. But my worst fear is dying before my kids have grown and managed to become whatever they are striving for.

When I had my surgery......I will never forget the looks on my 2 oldest children's face as they led me away. Even now after all this time it brings tears to my eyes. One was 23 and one was 18, and they looked little toddlers watching me wheeled away.

I am afraid of death for myself, only because I do not believe I have done enough good in my lifetime to deserve an afterlife. I mean, my hero is Mother Theresa......I have hardly earned the right to be there with her & Jesus, ya know?

The surgery I had was dangerous. The odds of me living were not very good. But I had no choice the odds were worse not having it done.

I don't think I told all of you about this. But my pre-op nurse & I had to spend alot of time together. I am not going to go into the details but there were some problems & what should have taken a few minutes took a couple of hours. It turned out she was a Christian.....one that shared my views, only she lives life correctly as I do not. She & I discussed God the entire time before my surgery. She made me feel stronger, safer, better and reminded me of my faith. Unfortunately because of the meds they gave me I cannot remember her name. But I will never forget how she helped me.

Sorry veering off ........
My answer, I am AFRAID of leaving my children. We are very close.
I am afraid of going to Hell or where ever God sends the bad people. Hopefully one day I will get it right.....and I will learn not to fear God so much.

by Alethia Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:33 pm

I understand the fear of dying before your child......I discovered this fear after I had my son. Part of this fear is a natural protective mechanism between a child and parent..but when your fear becomes all to real it then plays out in ways that become unhealthy for both yourself and the child...I did this with my fear, and it was one of the hardest to release.....but I do see now that by letting go of this fear, I have allowed him to spread wings connect with others and when the time comes...at least he wont feel so alone and feel like his whole world has been taken from him.......I know that pain and how difficult my life became because of it......I wouldnt want that for him......

I do feel the journey through life both here and wherever else we go after this one is about learning and growing, not about making mistakes and being the bad person. I once had some fearul visions of hell and how every little thing I did wrong would send me there.....no wonder I was afraid of making mistakes. I think our early lessons affect us this way....Being disconnected from our parents and feeling so afraid......with noone to make it right in our young impressionable minds we create the impressions ourselves......this for me turned my childhood and most parts of my adult life into one big long nightmare...

by Pixie1970 Tue Apr 06, 2010 3:47 am

jaded wrote:
I am afraid of death for myself, only because I do not believe I have done enough good in my lifetime to deserve an afterlife. I mean, my hero is Mother Theresa......I have hardly earned the right to be there with her & Jesus, ya know?

If by that you are comparing your life against that of Mother Theresa, who it could be said was a highly evolved spiritual being, then most of us are going to feel inadequate to say the least. You will have done many good things in your life, you just don't remember them but other people will. Something so simple as taking 10 minutes to fill a charity bag is doing good.....making another person feel good about themselves by a compliment, offering to shovel snow off an elderly neighbours pathway etc...all little things that you probably don't think matter very much all have a ripple effect. By that I mean that the charity bag helps to clothe people who have hit on hard times and the money that they spend on the clothes will go to help those in dire need. You compliment a person who may be feeling down, your comment lifts their mood, they have a better day and so people around them have a better day as a result. Shovelling snow for an elderly person will show them that people still care about them and they haven't been forgotten, others will see and will maybe think about what THEY could do to help elderly relatives/neighbours etc. Little acts of kindness are just as important.

My answer, I am AFRAID of leaving my children. We are very close.
I am afraid of going to Hell or where ever God sends the bad people. Hopefully one day I will get it right.....and I will learn not to fear God so much.

I am sure that you are not the bad person that you believe yourself to be Jaded. Everybody makes mistakes, that's what makes us human. It is how we deal with these mistakes that matters. I think that if there is a hell, we are living it.

The fear of leaving your children, I understand totally. I never gave it a thought with my two older sons who I had when I was 17 and 22 but this time with me being older, it IS a concern that I may never see my baby reach adulthood. I could dwell on it to a point where it consumes me or I could accept the concern as just a thought of something that may never happen. My wish would be that all my sons outlive me and when I do pass over, I will leave them all knowing that they were loved and that I equipped them as best I could to deal with lifes situations.

Why do you fear God Jaded?

by jaded Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:14 pm

As a child, I grew up in a very volatile dysfunctional environment. My parents didn't attend any church or anything like that.

My childhood friends family were quite religious. They invited me to go with them. I was probably age 4 when I started going. The preacher was hellfire & brimstone all the way. I can remember his shouting & his angry red face. Lol! I used to have nightmares that I was going to hell. Lol!

I guess i NEEDED those Sundays because it was the only sanity I had in my life back then. I listened, relied on, and believed & yes learned to fear God. It was my only promise of better things to come.

Maybe somehow in my mind I associated my home life ( so much misery) with a punishment I deserved since that is what was preached at church. IDK but to this day,m I try so hard to do right by people even the ones that hurt me. It takes alot to make me angry enough to retaliate against someone for how they treat me.In the end I always feel guilty for doing regardless of what they have done to me.

I believe adult children of emotionally abusive parents grow up feeling guilty. I always feel responsible. I always feel deserving of whatever people hand me negatively. I feel ashamed when people are positive toward me. I feel like they don't know how worthless I truly am. I only let a few select people in. Then I cherish them for life.

by RBM Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:06 pm

Pixie1970 wrote:
RBM wrote:Could you define regression - or provide some additional context ?

Hiya RBM...hope these links will help.

How regression therapy works

Past life case study

I have never used regression therapy but I am quite interested in how the use of it can alledgedly cure problems in this life. There is a theory that the birth marks that we have today are a result of an injury in a past life. My confusion about reincarnation is that how can we be in spirit and there to "welcome our families into the spirit world" if we have reincarnated? Time as we know it only exists in this world, spiritual time doesn't work in the same way so I would have to work out where it all fits in.

Another interesting link.

Victor Zammit

Thanks for the links. I am familiar with the last one through various inquiries of mine. I browsed the other two in addition, mostly to get a feel for what terminology you were familiar with.

I am reading My Big TOE (MBT) and he covers this: essentially, your body is one small, small, small part of a larger essence which exists in Consciousness Space. Your existence in this system is part of a larger system. You can access what you need directly, if you wish, without a middleman.

Are you familiar with Robert Monroe ? The author, Tom Campbell, of MBT started his research in association with him. You can search HSP for my posts in which I have posted often of the author and his work, or google that author/book/youtube video's for more in depth. Oh, there is also a forum for the book which I usually where I am at when not here. :-)

To your question: Yes I have been regressed. It was by a friend, Ivan, who was a trained hypnotherapist. One of his student experiences was under tutelage of the late Irene Hickman; Remote Depossession. My stage of development was much less clear then (mid '90's) than it is now. My regressed recollection was life as a exiled African bushman witch doctor.

by Pixie1970 Sat Apr 10, 2010 4:04 am

jaded wrote:As a child, I grew up in a very volatile dysfunctional environment. My parents didn't attend any church or anything like that.

My childhood friends family were quite religious. They invited me to go with them. I was probably age 4 when I started going. The preacher was hellfire & brimstone all the way. I can remember his shouting & his angry red face. Lol! I used to have nightmares that I was going to hell. Lol!

People have differing opinions on religion. It should be a personal thing. God is supposed to represent love yet so many wars are started in the name of religion. I don't hold with the "Fire and Brimstone" brigade. I don't fear God.....it's my fellow man/woman that I fear! Anything that gives you nightmares is NOT a healthy thing! Shocked

I have been brought up as a Christian but in my life so far, two churches have had an effect on me. One was a church ( can't remember which religion) me and a friend went there to do a project for school. The people sang gospel and were really warm and welcoming. The other is a spiritualist church which I used to go to. Everybody was so loving and people who I didn't know would give me a hug. It took a while for me to get used to it but it was a really loving comfortable atmosphere. Plus, these people wanted to listen to me and my experiences, nobody there told me it was "all in my imagination" or " When you are dead, you are dead"!!

Maybe somehow in my mind I associated my home life ( so much misery) with a punishment I deserved since that is what was preached at church. IDK but to this day,m I try so hard to do right by people even the ones that hurt me. It takes alot to make me angry enough to retaliate against someone for how they treat me.In the end I always feel guilty for doing regardless of what they have done to me.

I believe adult children of emotionally abusive parents grow up feeling guilty. I always feel responsible. I always feel deserving of whatever people hand me negatively. I feel ashamed when people are positive toward me. I feel like they don't know how worthless I truly am. I only let a few select people in. Then I cherish them for life.

In my opinion Jaded, your problems lie within that line! The past ( no matter how bad) is gone but maybe you are making the past, your present and your future! I don't know you but I can tell you that you are NOT worthless. You and ONLY you can change this way of thinking. I sympathise and know to a certain extent what you have been through but this doesn't have to be your life story...full stop! Forgive me hun...I say this with love but your nickname (Jaded) tells me so much. Look at these links...they may help you.

What's Your Life Story

Mirroring

Good Enough

How Do You Talk To Yourself

Why We Are Afraid Of Change

Life With Confidence Site Link Here

STOP telling yourself how worthless you are and START telling yourself the truth....how BEAUTIFUL and WONDERFUL you are. Use a mirror and look at yourself and say it!

Love Pixie xxxxxxx

by Pixie1970 Sat Apr 10, 2010 4:48 am

RBM wrote:
Thanks for the links. I am familiar with the last one through various inquiries of mine. I browsed the other two in addition, mostly to get a feel for what terminology you were familiar with.

I am reading My Big TOE (MBT) and he covers this: essentially, your body is one small, small, small part of a larger essence which exists in Consciousness Space. Your existence in this system is part of a larger system. You can access what you need directly, if you wish, without a middleman.

Are you familiar with Robert Monroe ? The author, Tom Campbell, of MBT started his research in association with him. You can search HSP for my posts in which I have posted often of the author and his work, or google that author/book/youtube video's for more in depth. Oh, there is also a forum for the book which I usually where I am at when not here. :-)

To your question: Yes I have been regressed. It was by a friend, Ivan, who was a trained hypnotherapist. One of his student experiences was under tutelage of the late Irene Hickman; Remote Depossession. My stage of development was much less clear then (mid '90's) than it is now. My regressed recollection was life as a exiled African bushman witch doctor.

Thanks RBM

I will see if my library has a copy but there are notes on the MBT website, so I will look at those as well. There are some very interesting stories about regression and past lives.

Interesting Past Life Story

Birth Marks and Past Lives

Pix

by Clumber1 Thu Apr 15, 2010 6:20 am

Interesting topic, and something I've come face to face with my whole life. I don't fear death I welcome it. I never wanted this life in the first place. Wow, that's sounds horrible, but it's true. Since I can remember I've always felt like an orphan, born to the wrong family, and born to the wrong place in time. Maybe that goes hand in hand with not feeling like I ever fit in... I dunno.

by Clumber1 Thu Apr 15, 2010 6:52 am

jaded wrote:I used to be afraid of everything. I imagine alot of that as from my strict, dysfunctional upbringing. But though I was consumed with fear, I managed to be protective and take care of others despite being afraid.

This is going to sound silly. But my worst fear is dying before my kids have grown and managed to become whatever they are striving for.

When I had my surgery......I will never forget the looks on my 2 oldest children's face as they led me away. Even now after all this time it brings tears to my eyes. One was 23 and one was 18, and they looked little toddlers watching me wheeled away.

I am afraid of death for myself, only because I do not believe I have done enough good in my lifetime to deserve an afterlife. I mean, my hero is Mother Theresa......I have hardly earned the right to be there with her & Jesus, ya know?

The surgery I had was dangerous. The odds of me living were not very good. But I had no choice the odds were worse not having it done.

Sorry veering off ........
My answer, I am AFRAID of leaving my children. We are very close.
I am afraid of going to Hell or where ever God sends the bad people. Hopefully one day I will get it right.....and I will learn not to fear God so much.

I can relate Jaded. My kids are 24 and 21 and I still have those "flashes" of sadness of leaving them before I think they are ready. For me, the truth about all that is, I think I'm more afraid of them leaving me, then me leaving them. I think it's very natural for a mother, after all that time and energy invested in another person, to want to hang on, sometimes for dear life. But, for them, at this time in their lives, I know I need to stop protecting them, allow them to make mistakes while keeping my mouth shut, and most importantly, allow them to feel their own feelings of growing up and growing older as painful as that can be. I think they call that "cutting the apron strings". I call it trusting them to take care of themselves now. With all that said, I don't do it perfectly, in fact, I screw up a lot and return to rescuing over an over. One thing that gets me back on track is knowing if I'm truly going to be the best mother at this time in their lives, that means I need to let go. All in all, it's not going to do them a bit of good if I keep interfering with their experiences.

I also wanted to add a message about religion. I was reading, somewhere, I can't remember where, about "spiritual abuse" and shame. It was very interesting to find out that abusive people often use scripture to control people through shame. And, shame is really just a form of control; that's it's sole purpose. Now that I know that, I feel my shame, let it go, and remind myself that it's really serving no purpose other than to serve someone else's agenda. On the other hand, I do believe in healthy shame, and that comes in the form of embarrassment or blushing. When that happens someone has crossed a boundary somewhere. Btw, this may or may not apply to you, I just thought it was an interesting take on religion and shame; the two don't necessarily overlap; you can definitely feel shame without a religious upbringing.

by melodiccolor Thu Apr 15, 2010 6:53 pm

If you feel shame or guilt because you crossed an internal ethical or moral standard, that is a good thing; it prevents you from doing it again. Those that don't have this at all are known as sociopaths, psychopaths and some personality disorders.

But, if it is imposed from without, it is absolutely a form of control and is easily abused. I totally agree with that and many religeons and societies ladle it on with a heavy hand. People who understand this often take full advantage of it.

OTOH, those who do not wish to control or be controlled who are fully aware of it will find it to be a remarkably ineffective tool in their case, lol.

by jaded Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:19 am

Clumber1, what keeps me from totally losing it is this quote, "Once you have children , you give up the right to self destruct."

I have taught my children right from wrong with out the shame. They can come to me with ANYTHING. We have been through it all together. But there have been instances they have been secretive about things when they should have come to me. Sad thing is, they usually say, "Don't tell Grandma . " When it does come to me.

If you feel shame or guilt because you crossed an internal ethical or moral standard, that is a good thing; it prevents you from doing it again. Those that don't have this at all are known as sociopaths, psychopaths and some personality disorders.

I agree Mel. My husband fits all of those disorders perfectly. Thing is, somewhere in the back of my head, I have it that in order to be a good person I must understand & try to help these people. I make allowances over & over. Then I feel like I have failed them & accept their guilt.

Since I can remember I've always felt like an orphan, born to the wrong family, and born to the wrong place in time. Maybe that goes hand in hand with not feeling like I ever fit in... I dunno.

I am the same. I am nothing like the rest of my family. My oldest brother (middle child) is a go getter. He loves money & has made something of himself, owns his own company. My youngest brother ( youngest child), thinks the world owes him something. Both would tromp right over top of you to get what they want. Then there's me.....just want to be healthy, live & love in peace. I wish for nothing materiel past necessities. I take care of my Mother the best I can. They have forgotten her. Yet, I am the one that everyone considers a failure in the family. Because I "feel" instead of compete in this world.

by Clumber1 Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:31 am

jaded wrote:

I am the same. I am nothing like the rest of my family. My oldest brother (middle child) is a go getter. He loves money & has made something of himself, owns his own company. My youngest brother ( youngest child), thinks the world owes him something. Both would tromp right over top of you to get what they want. Then there's me.....just want to be healthy, live & love in peace. I wish for nothing materiel past necessities. I take care of my Mother the best I can. They have forgotten her. Yet, I am the one that everyone considers a failure in the family. Because I "feel" instead of compete in this world.

Wow, it's so nice to hear from people who "just want to be healthy" and live in peace. In the last 10 years or so I've really lost my taste for material attachments. I think I could seriously just walk away and not miss anything. Btw, my definition of success is how I feel about myself at the end of each and every day.

by jaded Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:51 am

How wonderful!
My definition of success is what good I have done for someone. It makes me feel like I am earning the right to be here.

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jaded

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