Conflicting religious and moral beliefs with friends and family

Have you ever had any friends or family who believed that you would have a bad afterlife because of your morals and religious beliefs (or lack thereof?) Or because you believed in the "wrong" things? Or is the opposite true? Do you fear that any of your friends or family will have a bad afterlife for these reasons? How were these conflicts resolved? Discuss your experiences with this.

My mother fears I will come to a bad end because I don't believe in our family religion or any at all. She thinks I will bring bad luck on myself. But our family isn't very religious in the first place. She just has trouble dealing with the fact I'm an atheist.

My husband's family will never know my beliefs. They are southern babtists and would have a very hard time accepting them.

My husband and friends do know what I believe in or not; we are all ok with not agreeing in that area.

I've learned from experience not to discuss what I believe in anymore with family or most internet sources cause it just doesn't matter to most and everyone has opinions and beliefs of their own. I find religion and politics very humiliating to talk about with most anyone. Everyone seems to want you to join their sides...believe their way. Especially if you are soft spoken and sensitive. They just think you can be easily swayed one way or another. I just will say that I have my own beliefs that I came to by my experience, thoughts and feelings and I keep em inside of me with my spirit.
When someone tries to give me a guilt trip...I envision their words passing through me like vapor. Usually works...if it don't...I just remove my persona from what is bothering me...like we all do.
On the other hand...I respect most beliefs and don't care to bash anyone's religions or other 'faiths'. However, many times these same beliefs might be handicaps to personal growth....trying to live right and being the best that one can be...by stunting a person or filling their minds with doubt, fear and guilt.
If a religion or belief is causing this...it ain't worth it. My opinion. Life's too short to go around feeling unworthy or a reject. And...if any 'heaven' or afterlife be composed of this sort of thing...and I gotta bang on the door and have some password or special reason to be let in...perhaps it ain't really heaven but just another prejudiced club! Had enough of that on earth!
[snicker...ooo...I'm such a badboy now!]
well...'peace' anyways...
b.d.

Yup. My mum is pretty open minded and doesn't mind. But my dad used to believe that only 144,000 people would go to heaven. When I used to see him every year for a few weeks (parents split up when I was about 2), he'd tell me about all his deep religious convictions, and his whole lifestyle was so different to a 'normal' one. All he ate was fruit/veg (no meat or sugar), had a group prayer session twice a day, etc... it was very extreme. He had a whole new family with his next wife, 5 kids last count, probably more by now, since I haven't seen him in 10 years.

Anyway, that was all background... Once he told me that only 144,000 people were going to heaven, and stressed that you would have to be pretty devout to make it, considering how many people were in the world. I figured out pretty fast that I wouldn't be one of them, because my life when I wasn't with him was far from devout. And then I got plenty of stories about the afterlife and end of the world, basically he thought it would come around 2000 or 2007, and that anyone not in heaven would be on Satan's side fighting against the 'good' people, and that they would lose and then die forever. So yeah, I was about 8-10 when I began to wonder what eternal death would be like, fighting with Satan against people in heaven, etc, and probably began to feel that my life was morally wrong. I was basically doomed, because living with him was out of the question (I missed my mum too much), so I couldn't hope to become devout enough to get into heaven.

Yeah, I don't think I'll even attend the guy's funeral. He put so much s*** on me, that I don't feel anything for him (not even hate). He doesn't exist in my world any more, and I'm far better for it.

Erik, I am sick right now. I will answer this at a later date. I struggle so much with my faith. I will probably just make you more confused.
Love you

I believe everyone is the center of the universe of their own making. Delicious!

Currently, my favorite book on the planet is "The God Delusion," by Richard Dawkins. That should sum up my opinion of religion fairly succinctly. But if you want a broader perspective on my take, watch this fun little clip: http://www.lawofattractioninteraction.com/Satan-and-Santa.php

JackNConnor

JackNConnor wrote:I believe everyone is the center of the universe of their own making. Delicious!

Currently, my favorite book on the planet is "The God Delusion," by Richard Dawkins. That should sum up my opinion of religion fairly succinctly. But if you want a broader perspective on my take, watch this fun little clip: http://www.lawofattractioninteraction.com/Satan-and-Santa.php

JackNConnor

Hmm, I've fallen in the breach here, Jack. I'm not sure what your position is.

On one side I know Dawkins is a atheist. My understanding is his perspective in not just anti-religious, but there's only 'dirt and worms' when you die.

On the other side is Abraham-Hicks. I'm not sure if A-H is a theist or an atheist. I poked around the A-H site to answer that question, but only came away with a tentative guess of theist based on:

All-That-Is, or that which you call God, is not finished and waiting for you to catch up.

Can you clarify ?

I'm an adventurous atheist! You could call me an Energy-ist, that would be closer. But I guide my life by science, not religion, so I don't worship energy. That would be like worshiping gravity. I'm a staunch show-me type; I don't believe anything until I can experience it for myself predictably.

Dawkins is an atheist who, so far as I have seen, does not yet understand nor embrace the idea of a vibrational universe. I'd love to uncover the extent of his knowledge in cutting edge quantum physics and theory. He seems like a typical skeptic but I adore his thoroughly scientific arguments just chock full of evidence. Also, his readiness to change his mind should irrefutable new evidence ever come to light: a true scientist.

Abraham (no relation to the Bible character), the channeled consciousness that speaks through Esther Hicks, is an atheist as well. Abraham often uses the word "God" to relate to people who have inculcated that term. However, they (Abraham is a collective consciousness) make it very clear that they do not mean a singular consciousness of any kind--certainly not the robed old white guy in a beard--but a ubiquitous energy that encompasses All-That-Is. You'll usually hear them say "that which you call God" but they never employ it as a pronoun such as "God says this" or "God does that." It's a bit confusing when they seem to assign an almost anthropomorphic identity to All-That-Is, as in the above statement "[it's] waiting for you to catch up." Again, it's a conversational tool to try to bridge the comprehension gap for people.

They mostly refer to Source or Source Energy, meaning the stuff that makes up everything, supplies everything, and that which everything returns to. Source does not control anything or make decisions, it is an existential energy, kind of like the oceans could be (loosely) called the Source for all the water on Earth due to the cyclic nature of its forms. Source is the ultimate collective consciousness, encapsulating every individual consciousness simultaneously. It's not just that we are all connected--there is literally no separation energetically. A sort of spiritual Entanglement Theory, if you will.

I personally find the term "Source" a bit too...well...out there. Whenever you get a bunch of fancy new jargon surrounding an idea, it begins to sound like a movement or a religion. A vibrational universe isn't something you "decide to follow" any more than you decide to follow gravity. I'm looking for a lexicon that is more scientific and approachable to both right- and left-brained types.

I was even resistant to the idea of channeling until I fully grasped the concept of everybody being mostly nonphysical, anyway. Only a small part of us is here in these bodies, playing around with physical matter and our toys, time and space. Most of each of us is in an energetic form that, frankly, we can't quite get our minds around. And once I understood that one could access this energy through clairvoyance, and did so for myself on a daily basis, it was a short step to accepting channeling.

Regarding dirt and worms...since most of each us is non-physical and our physical-ness is temporary, yet occurring over and over in succession and we are made up of the same energy as everything else (all-that-is), then death is a pretty silly idea. It's kind of like saying that all stop lights are death or all pauses in a song are death or every time you blink, that's death. What a hoot! Pauses allow us to ponder and appreciate the spaces in between them. You couldn't read this sentence if there weren't spaces in between the words or two colors--white and black--with which to construct the letters. Contrast produces form.

JackNConnor

I know I said I was going to bed, but big mouth here had to make one more post.

Erik, I believe in God & Jesus Christ. I just don't believe much in religion.

My family was not religous, in fact quite the opposite. When I was very small I was drawn to the neighborhood church for whatever reason. My family mocks me because I believe so truly in God.

My family believes they do no wrong & are holier than thou. My mother in fact said she would never ask for forgiveness because she was not a bad person. Wonder how the heck I ever came from these people? Lol! I feel guilty for everything, even other peoples behaviors.

I am going to tell you something someone told me on a religous forum on my space about God.

God knows your heart & your concious. If you do deeds against others purposely that you know are in fact hurtful & do not care, you are sinning. BUT if in fact you are along the way sorry & MEAN it you can be forgiven.

There is no one that does not sin. God doesn't expect perfection from us.

I have found that the people who point their fingers are the ones who need the most forgiveness from God. They usually hide their own sin by pointing out others. I try so hard not to do that.

In my life my biggest sin is not forgiving myself & giving things to God. I ask for redemption but harber self hatred for how I fail. It doesn't work that way. To truly trust in God & recieved His grace , you have to believe you are WORTHY of forgiveness. That is what I, myself am working on now.

Okay if this is rambling. I am sorry. I am on medication like crazy...and sick.

Don't worry about what these people think. If they were people of GOD they wouldn't be judging you anyway.
As usual I luv ya!!!!

Erik this thread made me think of this song by Maynard.......warning might offend some of you!
The POT
Who are you to wave your finger?
Ya' must have been out your head.
Eye hole deep in muddy waters.
You practically raised the dead.

Rob the grave, to snow the cradle.
Then burn the evidence down.
Soapbox, house of cards, and glass,
So don't go tossin' your stones around.

You must have been high.
You must have been high.
You must have been.

Foot in mouth, and head up asshole.
Whatcha talkin' 'bout?
Difficult to dance 'round this one
'Til you pull it out, boy!

You must have been, so high.
You must have been, so high.

Steal, borrow, refer, save your shady inference.
Kangaroo done hung the juror with the innocent.

Now you're weeping shades of cozened indigo
Got lemon juice up in your... EYE!

When you pissed all over my black kettle
You must have been HIGH, HIGH
You must have been HIGH, HIGH

Who are you to wave your finger?
So full of it.
Eyeballs deep in muddy waters
Fuckin' hypocrite.

Liar, lawyer, mirror, show me.
What's the difference?

Kangaroo done hung the guilty with the innocent.

NOW!
You'll weep or, change the cozened indigo.
Got lemon juice up in your high eye.
When you pissed all over my black kettle
You musta been!

So who are you to wave your finger?
Who are you to wave your fatty fingers at me?
You must, have been, out your, mind!

Weepin' shades of indigo
Shed without a reason
Weepin' shades of indigo

Liar, lawyer,
Mirror for ya,
What's the difference?
Kangaroo be stoned
He's guilty as the government

NOW!
Will you weep or, change the cozened indigo
Got lemon juice up in your, EYE!
EYE!

Now when you pissed all over my black kettle.
You musta been HIGH, HIGH, HIGH, HIGH.
Eyeballs deep in muddy waters
Your balls deep in muddy waters.
Ganja, please, you must have been out your MIND


AND
Mansons
The Beautiful People"

And I don't want you and I don't need you
Don't bother to resist, or I'll beat you
It's not your fault that you're always wrong
The weak ones are there to justify the strong

The beautiful people, the beautiful people
It's all relative to the size of your steeple
You can't see the forest for the trees
You can't smell your own shit on your knees

There's no time to discriminate,
Hate every motherfucker
That's in your way

[Chorus:]
Hey you, what do you see?
Something beautiful, something free?
Hey you, are you trying to be mean?
If you live with apes man, it's hard to be clean

The worms will live in every host
It's hard to pick which one they eat most

The horrible people, the horrible people
It's as anatomic as the size of your steeple
Capitalism has made it this way,
Old-fashioned fascism will take it away

[Chorus]

There's no time to discriminate,
Hate every motherfucker
That's in your way

JackNConnor wrote:Dawkins is an atheist who, so far as I have seen, does not yet understand nor embrace the idea of a vibrational universe.

This search's first return is my first exposure to SVP, John Worrel Keely.

Also, his readiness to change his mind should irrefutable new evidence ever come to light: a true scientist

"irrefutable ... evidence" of what, SVP or God ?

I was even resistant to the idea of channeling until I fully grasped the concept of everybody being mostly nonphysical, anyway.

Jane Roberts 'Seth' introduced me to the concept of the Oversoul.

Thanks for filling in the blanks on the channeled Abraham.

I grew up as a Roman Catholic (with an Irish mother).
Now I go to a Unity church and basically believe that "God" is a Universal Intelligence that exists in us all. A sort of life force energy that keeps the very subatomic particles together. Without it there would be no order.

Now....
my mother is not too thrilled with it.
I sent her the taped version of "The Power of Now". Never heard a word about it even though I think it would help her immeasurably. But, you can't force things down people's throats.
She doesn't do it much anymore but, I got the: when are you going to go back to church? bit a lot.

I think as we get older we get more tolerant...

RBM wrote:
This search's first return is my first exposure to SVP, John Worrel Keely.

Also, his readiness to change his mind should irrefutable new evidence ever come to light: a true scientist

"irrefutable ... evidence" of what, SVP or God ?

I was even resistant to the idea of channeling until I fully grasped the concept of everybody being mostly nonphysical, anyway.

Jane Roberts 'Seth' introduced me to the concept of the Oversoul.

Thanks for the links to Sympathetic Vibrations Physics, now I've got something new to explore--delicious! I was referring to Dawkin's readiness to change his mind about pretty much anything. He's a scientific method scientist; give him empirical data that can be predictably reproduced and I'm pretty sure he (and I) would be delighted to call it truth. One of my first teachers was Seth, too! I was digesting Seth, Ramtha, and "What the Bleep Do We Know?" all around the same time. I still have my copy of "The Nature of Personal Reality."

Speaking of influential scientists, I hit the motherlode last night when I found a long quote by Dr. John Hagelin, a world authority in unified quantum field theories who understands the powerful nonphysical nature of reality and our ability to manipulate it through our thoughts. I'll post it elsewhere in here and add a link to this post.

JackNConnor

Hmmmmm....I think because I was a naturally more "spirtual" personality, it has caused conflict in my life with other people.
There seems to be two types of people in life...those who believe blindly(mechanically) and those who search for meaning.
It's the ones who follow mechanically that I have a hard time with. Any one who has taken the time to examine what they truly believe, gains my respect.....I'm at an odd time in my life though. I'm reorganising believe patterns. Opening up, shall we say...once I've reorganised my head space, which I believe may take some time.
Yes, I do believe we make our destiny. I witness it on a daily basis now. It's a bit of mind F@$%, comprehending that. I'm mean REALLY comprehending that, not just reading the information and understanding the words. I have to tear down and reconstruct myself.