What do we know about Obama and McCain, both good and bad?

I read a couple of articles in the few days of backlog of my local newspaper; one on each candidate. On another thread, a few of us were discussing how little information about both candidate's histories and voting records have been in the news. So I thought if any of us comes across something of interest to post it here.

On McCain; recently he has been changing his positions to appeal to right wing conservatives, somewhat. He came out and said last Sat. that he is against gay marriage. To me that is continuing to refuse to give the same rights to all people regardless of who they are. It is anolagous to mixed raced couples being forbidden to marry a generation ago.

I do like his proposals on developing alternative energy; using rewards instead of punitive measures to encourage ecological improvements. But, drilling for oil everywhere regardless of ecological sensitivity of the site seems a recipe for disaster and for too little gain.

On Obama; He stayed in a church where the preacher was clearly racist for 20 years; only separating himself from the preacher when it imperiled his candicacy.

The article in the newspaper is entitled: "Obama backers, policy, tied to decrepit housing"--several of his friends have enjoyed big profits by a policy he was involved in that grants private money to develop low income housing. The friends also have been hired by him to run his campaign. Their names include: Valarie Jarrett, Allison Davis, and Antoin Rezko. What they'd do is build the housing, then refuse to maintain it, resulting in the worst slum housing, while pocketing huge profits in government grants. One such notorious project is Grove Parc Plaza; one you should be able to find much news on. All 3 have made many large campaign donations to Obama as well. This smacks of graft and corruption, and reminds me of Haliburton on a smaller scale. How honest is this candidate?

www.votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=53270

usliberals.about.com/od/congressionalleadership/p/SenObama.htm

if you google/blackle either name and add 'voting record' you will get all the hits you can stand; if you can decipher the language of the bills they voted on, and tell whether the bill means a yes vote is screwing us, or a no vote is screwing us, then you can figger out whether you like or dislike one or the other. there is not much about either to make me hop up and down with glee...

for those of you who don't want to do the hard work, beware of taking a position here. you know who you are, and the trapdoor spider is still waiting with his sticky web.....
reb

McCain's temper really scares me. He called his wife a cunt in response to a rude but innocuous comment she made about his hair. It's scary to imagine the similar ways in which he'd overreact as commander-in-chief.

Did he really? I've heard about his temper, but that kind of comteptuousness and verbal abuse towards his wife speaks very poorly of his character.

Where did you learn of this; is it credible?

Being level headed is very important in the job of commander in chief.

I don't think I will vote for either candidate; this will be the first time where the choices are so bad, I am unable to pick the lessor of two evils.

I'm afraid I am guilty of voting for people for purely selfish reasons. For example, I consider myself a moderate a little left of center. However I voted for Ronald Reagan, twice, because I was working in military and secure communications in the private sector, an industry that was being heavily funded by the Reagan administration.
This time around I am desperately trying to determine which of these two idiots will back the space program because that is where my bread and butter is. My secondary consideration is the environment. I am rabidly against drilling in the gulf of Mexico, the waters to the east of Florida and the ANWR. There is too little return and too great a potential for disaster. If there is money to be thrown at this issue, it should go toward alternative energy strategies. And, I'm a great believer in using up the Saudi's oil and saving ours for a rainy day (pulls tongue out of cheek).

So what do we know about their stands on the space program? I would guess, since McCain is more hawkish, and space technology lends itself well toward warfare, that McCain would be the best choice to keep food on my table.
But McCain also wants to drill for oil all over that damn place. I still think that we should be concentrating on alternative sources. Oil will eventually run out. Lets start gearing toward that eventuality now.

melodiccolor wrote:Did he really? I've heard about his temper, but that kind of comteptuousness and verbal abuse towards his wife speaks very poorly of his character.

Where did you learn of this; is it credible?

It was confirmed by 3 reporters.

Then it must be so! Was it intended as a private conversation?

Blue,

the info i'm getting off of three news channels is that the only oil spill from offshore drilling happened in ca. in the 1960s or 70s. they ahve 'spider' technology now...they drill the hole, put in 'flex hoses', run it to a manifold, and the ships hook up to the manifold...there's only one connection that can bust, and it ahs a turn off valve on it....

otoh, any further oil supply is going to ruin the air more...so, i'm against oil altogether-i have a scythe to cut my weeds with, and an axe to cut wood. stop all use of oil, breed horses and mules, and we deal with it. tough tookums....no more computers, no more going to store, get a plow, hope for rain....lol! starve in the cities...die, breeding scum, die! (yes, i know, how morbid...but it may come true)...have to send 'chain letters to you all'.
reb

reb wrote:Blue,

the info i'm getting off of three news channels is that the only oil spill from offshore drilling happened in ca. in the 1960s or 70s. they ahve 'spider' technology now...they drill the hole, put in 'flex hoses', run it to a manifold, and the ships hook up to the manifold...there's only one connection that can bust, and it ahs a turn off valve on it....

You're absolutely right Reb. I know they are careful and there is slim to no chance of an accident. The same with nuclear.

When I truly examine my reasoning I realize that it is the aesthetics that concern me. I don't want to look at the damn oil rigs when I go to the beach. I know that's not such a big deal either. When I was at the beach in Galveston it didn't really chap my ass that bad to see them out there. You know, we get these big clumps of oil wash up on our beach and that is from ships that aren't careful. Also, the damn cruise ships cause more problems than an oil rig probably would.

But, I still think our focus should be on developing alternative energy strategies. That would be the logical ****Mr. Spock voice**** and intelligent way to go IMO.

Blue,
it would. also logical is to question ourselves 'why do we need to keep replicating so that we continually need more energy?'.....

the 'good thing' about oil derricks is: 1. provide jobs 2. great places to fish (fish love those big legs...in fact, i hve friends who love big legs...lol!)

i had summa that gunk on my feet once...it is like road tar, not 'oil' as people think of oil....disgusting...but...i don't know the solutions here...really, it's 'humanity's ego' that's the problem, and all else is just 'us' avoiding facing ourselves, imo....
reb

And a point in both candidates' favor is that they are both very interested in developing alternative energy and developing ways to use less energy overall.

The one thing I do like about McCain is his recent proposal to use incentives rather that punitive means to accomplish this. I am tired of being punished for the failings of industry and big business. It should be noted that I am an ardent environmentalist, as most of you know. So feeling this way says alot about current policies and hypocrisy.

The extreme liberals and established environmentalist and I part ways on this matter.

citrine wrote:Then it must be so! Was it intended as a private conversation?

If it was just one reporter I wouldn't put too much trust in it. But three?

nuckinfutz wrote:McCain's temper really scares me. He called his wife a cunt in response to a rude but innocuous comment she made about his hair. It's scary to imagine the similar ways in which he'd overreact as commander-in-chief.

Oh come on, this sounds pretty far fetched. You got something to back this up? Something concrete? And bear in mind that just because someone say it's so, doesn't make it so.

Often times these days, one ap report generates several articles as other reporters use that one as their source and don't actually do the confirming themselves. If all 3 cite the same witness, for example, then the question becomes, how trustworthy is the witness? Is there an ulterior motive for this witness?

But, if it came from 3 separate sources all citing witnessing the event, then it is probably true.

there are people who claim that the moon landing was 'staged'. also that 'i was abdominated by aliens'....people claim all kinds of carp. look at the voting records, and you'll see what kind of people either of these guys would be as president. looking at what they 'say' and not what 'they do' is a trap of the mind. reward performance, not promises, with your vote, or you will have wasted your vote, imo.

i don't care who calls who what, or who drinks what kind of herbal tea.....or what preacher those two ninnies listen to, whether they wear underwear or not, or whether they flip flop on issues (both of them do, so the one thing WE DO KNOW is they'll both lie like a rug to get elected)...i care 'how did they vote in the past' because that's who's slipping 'em money under the table is those interests, and that's who will be continuing to likely...

reb

So how do any of them stand on 'nuclear'?

Here, the nuclear lobby wants to add another nuke plant...
Just be wary.. It could well happen over there too...

& yes, I'm very much AGAINST da nukes... In all places...

Allowing bad housing schemes does seem rather awful... (How accurate & likely to be true is that, Mel?) & abusing a wife too... OoO You guys really aren't in an enviable position to choose between these two!!

'What should the rest of the world say'?!!

Damn, Reb, I think even I may be tempted to google for those voting results, lol!! /if they are accurate...?/

My local newspaper is quite reputable so I trust that the report is fairly accurate. If articles in the past had a problem with any inaccuracy, as soon as someone points it out, the correction is always made and if an article is unfactual, even an opinion collumn, not only is it made promptly public, but the author of it is fired. I've been getting this paper for 25 years and seen it happen.